[dropcap]T[/dropcap]he Duke of Burgundy is the sort of film that doesn’t just satisfy the Bechdel test. It clutches the Bechdel test in its manicured hands and snaps it like a twig. Peter Strickland’s new drama is a sensual portrait of a dominant-submissive relationship between the ostensibly worldly Cynthia (Sidse Babett Knudsen) and young naif Evelyn (Chiara D’Anna). While many of the conflicts they face would be relatable to any couple, the visual styling is lush and otherworldly. tn2 met with Knudsen to discuss her role, working with Strickland, and what it was like to veer away from her fictional Prime Ministerial duties.

“It was very much entering a world […] It’s just so rich and full. I don’t understand it at all, but I’m completely fascinated by it […] And then this script! It was just so different from anything I had done, so I really just went to talk with [Strickland] because I thought it was interesting. He’s really nice, and really easy to communicate with. And so we talked about what he was searching for — how to talk about relationships. How much do you change for the person you love, and when does that conflict with what you are yourself? I really liked that it was just so out there, so crazy, and yet really recognisable in all the banalities and all the little struggles. And [the relationship] was between women, so I asked, ‘Is it lesbian?’ and he said,
‘No, no, it’s not lesbian.’
‘Ok.’
‘There’s just no men.’
‘Right.’
He wanted to avoid that male/female dominance issue, and it was cleaner just to make them one sex. He makes a lot of choices that way: Do the characters have to have a job? Do we care about their lunch hours? Not really, not to tell this story. So we avoided jobs. To me, it wasn’t homosexual. I didn’t play a homosexual. I played an older person in the relationship. I played a character who has her preferences, who wants to live her way, who has to cope with someone who has her own needs.”

The viewer then has to wonder if — by creating a world devoid of men, a unisex, one-gender-fits-all space — the film is aiming to transcend questions of sexual orientation in order to get at something more universally relatable about relationships. “I don’t think that Peter would say it, but I do think that [the film] touches things that we can all relate to in some way, because we don’t really know where it is or when it is. For me, it’s very playful. It’s almost stylistic at times. I felt that ‘finally, I get to do a film in the 70s.’ I was born a bit too late, but I love those 70s films. Not particularly the erotic ones, but that whole film language. So much was going on in the 70s. And then there’s humour, and it’s a bit stupid and silly at times as well. It’s the first time I’m in something that’s so stylised, so visual, and so beautiful: the costumes, the decorations, the pictures, and the light. Walking around, the beauty was fantastic.”

This fantasy setting seems to greatly contrast with that of Knudsen’s television series Borgen, which, despite being an oversized drama, is certainly rooted in reality. Borgen is the sort of series that tries to convince its audience that it is showing the real, “insider’s look” at the inner workings of government. In contrast, the audience has no defined preconceptions or expectations of the world of The Duke of Burgundy, which is unlike anything else they may have been exposed to prior. Knudsen discussed how these different settings and styles inform her work as an actor: “In Borgen, my part was as hostess. ‘Welcome to my world, let me show you around. Come into my office and we’ll show you how we talk here.’ I felt really responsible for making you understand the story. And [in The Duke of Burgundy] I was just a guest, just a visitor, in Peter’s world. The filming of it was very respectful and un-naughty. I didn’t have to cross any borders I didn’t want to cross. But it is a completely different world. I did work with the character before, and I prepared what she’s going through, what she wants in every scene, all of the psychology, and her story. I had that prepared. But then sometimes I just had to think, ‘is this a dream, is this my dream, is it her dream? I don’t know’. I’m just blindfolded. You just have to walk in. This is really a director’s film. It’s his project. When we filmed, I didn’t know how he was going to edit it. He could’ve changed the story completely […] it’s definitely his story, his universe, his film.”

Knudsen also explained how developing an ongoing, long-term character over the course of a TV series’ run differs from acting in an auteurist film: “Borgen was the first time I had done something like that. I hadn’t done very much TV. I’ve done a lot of theatre, a lot of physical and visual theatre. So my background led me to thinking in the film: ‘how can I use the butterflies?’ It was a bit more surreal. Borgen is very psychological, logical, understandable. In Borgen I felt like I was the actress but I was also a storyteller. And here [in The Duke of Burgundy], I’m an instrument. Which was fantastic! That’s the joy of my work. I can come with these arms, and this face, and whatever I’ve experienced, and I’m allowed to go into these worlds that I would never enter, ever. I don’t know people who live like that, or talk like that, so it’s just so enjoyable to do a bit of world-hopping.”

The Duke of Burgundy is a film that gleans inspiration, and acts as an homage to, softcore cinema from the 1970s. Knudsen discussed some of her own cultural touch points from that era, and mused about its aesthetic: “I think [Strickland] loves it. You’d have to ask him, but I thought, ‘God, is it possible to do films like this, where you just choose the nicest, loveliest things, the things you prefer, and just do it, without dealing with the boring shit you usually need to?’ Supposedly it’s a tribute to [Jesús] Franco’s films, which are semi-erotic […] It’s an interesting way of acting, because in one scene you might very much be driving the story, and in the next scene you might just be standing, looking out the window for a while, and letting the image become you. There’s a detachment there that I felt was very enjoyable, that’s a bit coquette. It’s a bit like jewellery; it has to be functional, and it has to sit well, but it also can just be beautiful […] What I really love is the searching, and this film is very much searching […] You can’t do a thing like that unless you’re sincerely confident in the director. What I have seen Peter do just made me completely open to what he might want, because I was completely convinced that I was working with someone very interesting.”

On getting involved in the project, Knudsen said: “I was contacted by the casting director. I think it was the producer first who had seen me in Borgen, and they talked to Peter about me. You know, it’s pretty conventional. You go from meeting with the director, and one of the first things I said was ‘I don’t do nudity, how do you feel about that?’ And he said we’d deal with that, and he couldn’t see how that would be a problem. [The film] might have been more naked, but it didn’t have to be.”

Knudsen also discussed the central draw and curiosity of the film, its use and depiction of sexuality: “In the Duke of Burgundy, [sexuality] is very much the core of their relationship, and I think that everything that might be going on between them translates into something sexual, because that’s the focus in this particular story. But the way I thought about it was much more general: ‘I don’t want flowers because I asked you to bring me flowers, I want you to want to give me flowers’. These kind of things. ‘I have a right to be jealous, I have a right to not be judged’ — all of these [conflicts] are very general, and can be found in any relationship. The very small and practical, and the very big and almost impossible to talk about, are made concrete by being translated into something sexual.”

On developing a relationship with her co-star Chiara D’Emma, Knudsen admitted: “I think we’re very different, and I think Peter used our differences very well. Our temperaments are different, our ways of expression are different. We didn’t really rehearse that much, or talk about it that much. It was more, ‘you do your thing, I do my thing’ and we’ll just meet and see what happens when these two clash. It definitely wasn’t a process where we talked about everything ahead of time.”

It is not often that age is brought to the forefront in filmic depictions of female sexuality. Knudsen spoke about the role that age played in her performance: “I enjoyed it very much, being the older, wiser, more vulnerable one. I love how [Cynthia] gets a sore back — it’s just so banal, certainly very earthly, and boring, almost, having Evelyn rub her back. I like that because then it’s not only internal and emotional; it’s very concrete. I think it made it easier for me to say [about Evelyn] ‘she’s so cute, and young, and stupid’. If we were the same age — taking it from another place — the relationship could be more forgiving, and more admiring. It was very fun. I’ve never played the older woman before! I liked that.”

The age difference between lovers Cynthia and Evelyn certainly affects the power dynamics in their relationship. Knudsen responded to this, saying: “Absolutely, yeah. I really like the scene where Evelyn is asking a stupid question [at a lecture, in a room full of scholars], and it pains my character that she’d be so shameless, asking instead of thinking twice. There’s more to fall from, for my character. The older woman can be completely in charge, she has the experience, she feels superior in so many ways. So when she feels humiliated, and vulnerable, and lost, that’s much more of a fall, which I thought was really interesting to play on. There’s much less control.”

There is a butterfly motif throughout the film, with the characters attending scientific lectures on different breeds, and pinned, framed specimens dress their surroundings. Even the title, The Duke of Burgundy, is named after a particular species. Knudsen talked about this fanciful motif: “Yeah, Peter really has a thing for insects. He’s recorded insect sounds, and the sound in this film is quite amazing […] To me it was fantastic that [Cynthia] was a lepidopterologist [a butterfly expert] — to be nerdy, to be a specialist at one thing. It demands concentration because it’s very small, it’s very specific. It made me feel that she knows something that you don’t. It made me feel very worthwhile. I just love the instruments and all of the props. Everything was so delicate and precise, and that gives a lot to the character. You have to move in a certain way when everything around you is so fragile, using the physicality of someone who knows about these things. It made me like [Cynthia] first of all, because she was so passionate and devoted.”

The Duke of Burgundy opens February 20 at the Irish Film Institute and Light House Cinema. Read our review here.